And I thought the topic of reverence in sacrament meeting would be a little “filler” topic that would take a week or two before we tackled something meaty again. Hahahahahahaha! My mailbox is bursting with letters from around the world, from people who are despondent over irreverence, and from people who have tons of possible solutions. I'm guessing this topic is going to persist for several weeks, so dig in your heels and get on the roller-coaster with me.

Our first letter comes from a reader whose bishopric linked sacrament meeting reverence with (you'll never guess this!) preparedness. Read on for what she has to say:

Interesting that this question should be posed on this particular day. 

In our Sacrament meeting yesterday, the bishop and his two counselors spoke on that very subject, the bishop addressing the adults, a counselor addressing the children, and the other counselor addressing the youth.  All three talks were very well said and dealt with an issue that has needed to be examined and solved.  Children — and even adults — traipsing in and out throughout the meeting time have been very disruptive.  Children — and even adults — sometimes visiting out loud during the meeting were disrespectful and disruptive.  

The subject of "preparedness" suggested that parents see that preparations are made at home before going to meeting — telling the children what will happen in Sacrament and what is expected of them. They should be eating, drinking and going to the rest room before going in to meeting, then sitting quietly and not talking.  The speakers suggested also that, if it were necessary to talk, it should be done in whispers, also that toys be quiet toys — soft books and sponge blocks — no wooden blocks or metal toys.

This is but a brief summation and doesn't begin to cover the scope of the special talks.

Annie L. Martin

Annie, I really like the subject of preparedness as it relates to sacrament meeting. If we did that, we wouldn't have half the congregation trooping in to find seats after the sacrament has already been passed, which is endemic in our ward. I'm not sure why we as a people can't be ready for our meetings, but being fully ready and prepared for them before they start can only help the situation.

We all know kids make will some noise, but if it wouldn't be allowed it in the temple, then it doesn't belong anywhere in the chapel on Sunday either. That is what I have always been taught and read in talks by the leaders of the Church, and I agree that the chatter is totally out of control. 

Our small ward is reverent during the passing of the sacrament , but when the talks start it  occasionally can  get out of hand, but I commend our ward for reverence "during Sacrament meeting only."

My biggest complaint is the noise in the hallway before and after Sunday School! Most of the time I cannot hear the opening prayer or the beginning of the lessons and our older generation complain of the same thing.  We are there to learn, not to listen to other adults, and teenagers chatting out in the hallways. Go to class!  Chat when the entire meeting is over!

Thanks for letting me share.

Gwen in Missouri

You make a good point, Gwen. Part of sustaining our fellow ward members means that we'll be there when they teach the classes we have sustained them to teach. That's not always easy, because some teachers are put into their callings for their benefit rather than for the benefit of the students in their classrooms. However, the best way is always to help them as much as we can — if only because someday we'll be in their unenviable position.

Read on for a letter that suggests a geographical solution:

At the risk of sounding flip (which I really don't mean to do), you didn't say where you sit in the chapel, but my wife and I have sat in the second pew for all of our 37-year married life. 

We did that originally to get our young kids in front of the distractions of other kids.  And it worked — with all the noise behind them instead of in front of them, they weren't so tempted to be distracted, and neither were we.  In addition, we were close enough to hear the words of the speaker even without the microphone. 

As the old commercial used to say: "Try it, you'll like it."

Royal Connell
Annapolis, Maryland

Here's an even tastier suggestion:

Years ago, Brother French told of a “reverent treat.”  His family would go to the store on Saturday, the kids would pick out a treat — cupcakes, chocolate bar, pudding cups — and then home they would go.  The kids next day would have to be reverent in Sacrament — not getting up to go to the bathroom, making sure to sit still, and listening to the talks.  If they did not, after church, Brother French would eat their “reverent treat” and they would not get it.  After a few weeks, the children figured it out. And Brother French said they picked out some really bad treats, and he had to eat them.

We used this on the kids until they were old enough to be reverent without a treat.  It worked for us.

A devoted reader in California

I commend you, Devoted Reader, for having children who were mature enough to grow out of the need for “reverent treats.' Most of us don't. I know I haven't! Whenever I teach a lesson, I try to have some sort of SMODs (Spiritual MOtivation Devices) to enhance the attention of the class. The ones they like most involve some form of chocolate, although once I baked lesson points into fortune cookies.

Given our ward's SMODs habit, I am very glad our meetinghouse doesn't suffer the fate of the meetinghouse of our next reader. Of course, I've never seen cheese sticks ground into the carpet of our chapel. That may have something to do with it!

Our ward has its noisy weeks (where it seems none of the children can keep it together) and its quiet reverent weeks.  Just like you we have a couple of people who you just do not want to sit anywhere near because they will talk to each other (mid-age/older folks) or to their children loudly during any and all parts of Sacrament meeting.  It's really difficult to be tolerant some days when you believe the behavior could be avoided if someone would just say something to educate them or ask them politely to be more respectful.  

I do think it's the parent's preparation, though, which goes a long way in keeping the domino effect down by being ready and on-time and in a calm attitude.  REVERENCE DOES NOT BEGIN AT THE CHAPEL DOORS!

However, I have a serious beef that is directly related to the reverence factor.  Your reader had a question about the volume of those in the room.  My question is about the STUFF people bring!   In the last year I have seen families bring cheese sticks (which more often than not get barfed into the mom's hand and on the floor), bags of cereal, juice boxes, sandwiches and pastries, suckers, candy, and so on.  Our meetings begin at 1 p.m., for heaven's sake!

Very small children don't have to have food every hour; it is a learned habit that is fed by immature parents who cannot set limits or make preparations in advance to feed the children before they come.  If they wake up from a nap and are cranky and hungry — take them out!  If they woke up on the way to church, don't bring them in until they are fed.

Not only that, but there are also several sisters (mostly teenagers and young adults) who bring their favorite character blankets (partially protesting the fact that it is cold in the room, partially just being tacky).  If you are cold, wear appropriate clothing. If sandals and short sleeves work outside but it's too cold inside, consider nylons and a sweater!  When did common sense go out the window?

WHAT'S UP WITH THAT?    When did Sacrament meeting become no more sacred than a football stadium?

It's not just the cleanliness. Every building I have been to in the church worldwide has its own church mice; many have rats in more temperate climates — including metro & rural Northern Virginia, and their own varied selections of cockroaches and ants.  Sticky pews are not new to anyone.  However, on either activity night for our building, people bring their McD's or Taco Bell and wander around with it.  In nursery we've had to take all the snacks home and bring them back so critters won't get into them (even through a locked cabinet and rubbermaid they get to it).  It used to be just the kitchens or nurseries that were the focus of attention, but now it's the chapel itself. (Yes, physical facilities does exterminate annually).

The bishop has tried to bring up the problem in ward council to gauge the ward's preparation to hear and understand the message of not bringing food into the meetings. He was met by people squirming in their seats or getting very angry, so he dropped the subject for now. 

We need to realize that, like it or not, we have manners for some very practical reasons.  Cause and effect works here: changing what we want to do in order to do the right thing may help us understand, respect and learn self-control.  It makes me feel a degree like Christ when he saw the moneychangers in the temple — when you see people setting up house in the Lord's house they seem very much like squatters who have no regard for where they are and even more so, no earthly idea of why they are there or who they are there to worship!

Frustrated Ward Member

Thanks for writing, Frustrated. Although our own Northern Virginia building has been mouse-free for ages, your letter reminded me of the building of our new stake center. We had anticipated that stake center for a long, long time because we had been holding stake conferences in a high school that was an hour away from home for several years. The new stake center we got was absolutely beautiful, and I was only distressed that our ward would not be one of the wards meeting in the new structure.

That envy didn't last long. I was completely floored by the way ward members trashed that building. There was writing on the walls almost immediately after the building was dedicated. Food was ground into the carpet and left there to create permanent stains. Furniture was thrown around and abused, the refrigerator was trashed, and all sorts of horrible things kept happening.

These weren't vandals who were bent on destruction; they were stake members “using” the building. It sickened me to see the way they disrespected the beautiful gift they had been given. And although I never lived in a ward where the members had to build their own chapel, it made me long for a return to those days — if only because the members may have appreciated the building if they had had to work for it.

Our humble old meetinghouse has been spared the ravages of our stake center. But then, there are still people who go to church in our building — people who have been around a lot longer than I have — who constructed that meetinghouse with their own hands. I wonder if there's any connection.

Here's a letter that's short and to the point:

Any parent who doesn't take a disruptive child out of Sacrament Meeting is disrespectful to all those around them and to the Lord.  The Spirit absolutely leaves in the midst of noise and confusion. We can't possibly be member missionaries in such a circus.  How embarrassing! 

Members should not wait to remove their children.  They should do it immediately and take them to a room where they can sit them in a corner with nothing to look at except a blank wall.  A child will eventually figure out that it is much better to behave in Sacrament Meeting.

Ron and Brenda Heilig

Thanks for writing, Ron and Brenda. Your letter reminded me of a terrific article that Orson Scott Card once wrote for his Vigor Magazine . It contains tender and loving advice for how to civilize children in church. I looked up the article and have received permission to run it this week in Meridian. Look for it!

Read on for a different perspective about the missionary spirit in our sacrament meetings:

I grew up occasionally attending one of those very reverent churches Bob (the reader who started this topic) wrote about.  We rarely went because it was hard on my mother and my dad did not go.  We had to sit with our hands in our laps and try not to wiggle.  When we were very small my mom did not even try.  I hated church, and it was a struggle for me.

The first time I was in an LDS sacrament meeting I was in a state of shock about the way the kids behaved, but after a short time I could see they were not all miserable.  In fact, the wiggly kids made a very positive impression on me and I liked seeing the families together.  Bob need not worry about inviting people to the meetings; the spirit will speak to his guests.

I recently went to a sacrament meeting while I was on the road in another state.  I was about 10 minutes early and no one said so much as hello, although one did manage to smile during the passing of the sacrament.  There were kids present, but it was deathly silent.  By the end of the meeting I was so happy to get out of there, everyone was so solemn it was as if someone had just died.  It was not personal; they did not greet each other either.  Reverence need to mean grimness — we can be cheerfully reverent.

A friend of mine served in Iraq.  In an email, he said a hard part for him was having no children and no noise in sacrament meeting. 

That said, my husband always said, "Good intentions and crying children should be carried out swiftly."  We as parents do need to do everythine we can to contain our children.  My children were quite wild so I have some experience. 

The first positive change we made was when we stopped giving any toys or food during sacrament meeting.  You would think the kids would get worse, but then they never had anything to squabble over and they somehow managed to actually listen more.  We started when we had a 2-year-old and an infant.  Two experienced (as in no longer had small children) families recommended this to us, and we decided to try it.  Although it totally runs counter to current trends, I can promise parents that after the initial withdrawal it works very well. 

The nest thing we did was to make sure going out was less fun than staying in.  As long as they were too little to sit still for a TV, I did not ask them to sit.  We just hung out in the hall taking turns.  As soon as they could sit still for a TV I expected them to be able to be mostly still in sacrament meeting.  They could wiggle as long as they were quiet. 

If they went in the hall they had to be totally still in my lap.  I also had to carry them out, not my husband, because they would do anything for more time with dad.  When we experimented with my husband pulling them out so I could get a break, they really got awful.  That experiment was the result of a talk to the men about giving their wives a rest and taking care of the little ones in church. 

The trouble with cry rooms is that the children never learn to behave.

It sounds like Bob is really struggling to hear.  Our chapel has headphones for people with hearing loss.  Maybe he could try these so he could hear the talks better.  Perhaps some of these parents are overwhelmed and he could sit with them and help with the kids.  The single parents are really stuck because if they take one child out the others are not supervised.  Maybe he could supervise the remaining children.  Maybe there could be some classes with tips on how to help kids learn reverence.

Some of these children may have emotional or developmental issues and their parents may have no way of quieting them.  Maybe this is a time for compassion.  Sometimes the challenges and messages we get at church have nothing to do with the talks.  Going to church was extremely stressful for me when my children were small, and I have known people who just stopped going so as not to deal with the challenges.  When I hear the children usually, I am just glad it is not me struggling.

Liz in Santa Monica

Thanks for another great letter, Liz! You always have such a compassionate — and yet a practical — take on things. I like the solutions you have for some of the reverence problems in the chapel, but I also like your optimistic outlook on the situation. Being angry and causing contention isn't the way to solve any problem.

This has been a sore bone of contention with me for years.  At long last I am in a ward that so reverent one can almost hear a pin drop.  The problem as I see it, parents do not want to parent, or they want a “break on Sunday," and it annoys everyone else.

Why are we so afraid of offending?  Why would parents get offended?  This behavior system reflects the manners of our society in general.  We are ruder, less kind and want it all now.

Our meeting should be very reverent.  I have not brought visitors before, because of the noise — the "trains, cars, food, book, crayons, and anything else that makes noise."  We are not training up our children as they should be.  We are not preparing them for adulthood; we are keeping them babies with constant entertainment.

WHY?

Even in the temple, I have overheard conversations about the sales at Walmart. I have had to turn around in my seat, in the temple, and ask two noisy sisters to be quiet.  I just got a blank stare.  WHY?  Has our need for talking overtaken the spiritual need for peace and quiet and to be able to listen to the still small voice?

I hope Bob's letter hits a note with every caring Latter-day Saint. We should all work better to make our meeting spiritual feasts instead of aggravation and annoyance.

Proper parenting usually will take care of bad behaviors.

I trained my daughter when little at home for sacrament meeting. We played a game called "Sacrament Meeting," and if she was reverent and did not have to go potty for an hour, she got a nice reward.  I taught her the importance of listening and what good behavior is.  I was a single mother, working three jobs, yet I parented with love, joy and humor.  It can be done.  I strongly encourage all us to be latter-day saints — not just Mormons.

Stephanie in Branson Missouri

As someone who works in the temple once a week, Stephanie, I can echo your sentiments about reverence in the temple. For some reason I know not, the celestial room in the Washington D.C. Temple is pretty close to being acoustically perfect. Sound bounces everywhere. I have been flummoxed by some of the conversations I have heard from people who were whispering forty feet away. Alas, many of them don't even bother to whisper! Whether it's soccer games or gynecological problems, I've heard it all. I've even been subjected to “Star Trek.”

I find it ironic that although I have been in many temples, the most reverent place I have ever visited is the Alamo. We could take a lesson from the reverence there! But I do know that when people in our ward — or even in the temple — make noise, they aren't intentionally bent on causing mayhem. They just don't know better. I know that because I make a whole lot of mistakes myself, and I hope for a little loving charity from the people who have to endure me.

Read on for someone who is at on the giving end of the reverence problem. Thank goodness she's able to laugh about it!

I feel for Bob!  I'm in a similar situation except that it is my child who is making all of the noise.  (Well, most of it; the other noisy boy is my hubby's counselor.  LOL!  It's the Branch Presidency's kids that
make all the noise in our chapel!) 

Here is what I have been learning as I raise my rambunctious boy:

Having said all that — it is Bob's bishop's responsibility to teach reverence.  The bishop should encourage reverence from the podium.  He might also want to turn the sound level up a bit!  Home teachers who visit the families with noisy kids could be asked to prepare age-appropriate messages for their families about the purpose of sacrament meeting. The Relief Society presidency and the elders quorum could prepare a few special lessons about helping children be quiet in sacrament.  The Scouts or the YW could be asked to make a bunch of quiet books as a service project for the branch.  The Primary could devote a month of Sharing Time to teaching reverence.  Perhaps the Ward music director and the Primary chorister could plan to prepare a few intermediate hymns that the Primary children are familiar with to help them participate in the meeting and make some joyful noise.

Those are some things Bob's ward council could do.  Here's what Bob can do: 

Avoiding this very important topic for fear of offending someone is counterproductive.  Sacrament meeting, especially the act of taking the sacrament, is the most important part of our Sabbath day worship.  Children who do not learn that we should have respect for Christ's Atonement are less likely to grow up to have deep and meaningful testimonies of Him. 

Wards and branches full of people who cannot meditate while they partake or feel the witness of the Spirit as talks are offered may be experiencing a slow erosion of their own testimonies.  Respectfully remind your bishop of the fact the general authorities have been issuing calls for greater reverence in Sacrament
meeting lately — also refer to the 1 Corinthians 11-16 lesson from last week that reminds us to take the Sacrament more seriously. 

Ask your stake representative again and again when you might be able to expect an update to the sound system, providing parents with an opportunity to take noisy children out while still listening to the meeting.

Good luck!

Ginny B. in Upstate New York

What a pleasant letter, Ginny! You recognized the serious of the problem, realized that your own family is a contributor to it, and offered some excellent solutions. I like the way you offered things for the entire ward council to do — and then gave a whole different list to Bob. Well done!

Here's another letter from a mother in the trenches. Read on for what she has to say:

Well, I just had to write because I feel very strongly about this issue.

I have three boys (ages 8, 6 and 2) who are very active.  I feel that I may have some experience that is relevant.

When we go to church, we are there to be quiet and reverent, and my boys know that is what is expected.  How are they to know what reverent means?  A lot of people say, "Would you please be reverent?" — but how are the children to know what is expected of them if you don't sit down and explain it to them.  I try to tell my kids this:

I think it is also very important to take your children out into the hall when misbehaving.  This is not where you go to chat with the other parents who are also out there, or to let your child run around, or have a really great family reunion!  I take my kids out and make them sit with me, or tell them that they are to be good and quiet.  If they are ready then we go back in. 

I think that it is vital to the child's reverence to be taken right back in and not be rewarded with a trip to the hall.  So many kids now are taken to the hall and allowed to run around like madmen, and then their parents wonder why they are not behaving in church!

I also believe that if you are going to be offended, that is your choice, but if there is a problem in your ward the leaders need to say something.  Elder Bednar's talk about this is wonderful. If that talk is presented the same day, that would be a nice hint!  The reverence is absolutely necessary if we are to feel the spirit and also our investigators.  This absolutely needs to be addressed. 

In our stake, it was done in a very nice manner.  Our bishops got up and explained the acoustics in our building.  Then they proceeded to let us know that it was very distracting for others if the children were there being noisy, if there were people talking and any number of loud distractions.  To my knowledge, there were no inactivities that resulted from this counsel.

I think that if a bishopric prayerfully councils with the Lord with how to handle it, then this can be resolved.  I know that it can.  If I can keep three active boys quiet through church, then anyone can!  I should not have to be complimented every Sunday about how reverent my kids are — this should be an everyday occurrence (although it certainly is nice to hear!).

I really hope that this doesn't sound preachy but it is something that I feel very strongly about and I believe can be changed very easily.

kgm3boys

Thanks for a great letter, kgm! I really like your point about choosing whether to be offended. Thanks for bringing it up.

Our last letter today is from someone who has a bird's-eye view of the reverence situation in her ward. It's a short letter, but it opens up a whole new can of worms (which is appropriate for someone who has her bird's-eye view). At least she has something to eat during sacrament meeting!

As our branch pianist, I am well aware of this problem! We do not have a foyer where people can visit before the meeting, so they visit in the chapel before sacrament meeting starts. We even have one member who does business over a cell phone before the meeting starts!

I have tried everything I can think of to get our members to quiet down — playing a louder prelude to tell them they are in the Lord's house sometimes helps. I've thought that maybe a lively polka or rag songs might get their attention, but I am really hesitant to go that far.

We have used a reverence child from Primary, standing by the podium with arms folded to help remind people that it is time to get ready, but that has been sporadic at best. I honestly think that next time I am called to speak, I will tape record everyone that morning and play it so they can actually hear how noisy it is, then speak on being reverent. Any suggestions that any of you have — please send them in!

Sharon Haynie
Del Norte   CO

Loved your idea about your next sacrament meeting talk, Sharon!

I think there's a huge issue brought up by your letter that we haven't addressed yet. This is that our culture has created a problem that doesn't yet have a solution — or at least it doesn't have one that I know of.

First of all, our spending so much time together makes ward members part of a small community — a village or even an extended family, so to speak. For those who don't live near their biological families, the members of their ward can be the most important people in their lives. We even refer to each other as “brother” and “sister.”

The scriptures also foster this unity. We all know the scripture, “Be ye one, and if ye are not one ye are not mine” (D&C 38:27). We are actually commanded to love one another!

So we develop this love for each other, and what happens? We get to church, and are told it's irreverent to visit with one another in the chapel before or after sacrament meeting, “because this is the room where we take the sacrament.” We are told it's forbidden to speak in the halls before, between or after meetings because there are other wards we might disturb. We certainly can't visit inside the classrooms or during sacrament meeting when those meetings are in progress!

In effect, we are told we can't speak to each other anywhere inside our buildings on Sundays — unless we're in a lucky situation where our ward doesn't share the facilities with another congregation.

As much as people may want to be reverent, this is not an enforceable rule . There needs to be some accommodation made, somehow, to allow people to greet one another before or between meetings, because the visiting is going to take place whether or not those accommodations are made. We shouldn't have to choose between being reverent and loving one another, so if any of you have ideas about how we can satisfy both laws, please send them along!

Please send your ideas to circleofsisters@meridianmagazine.com . If you're writing about this last point, please put Can of Worms in the subject line so I can put your letters aside for a separate column. But in any case, put something in the subject line that will let me know your letter isn't spam. And when you write, be sure to include your full name, city and state or province. (If you'd rather be semi-anonymous, sign your name as “A Reader from Michigan” or “Sandy from Timbuktu.” The important thing is that we hear from you.)

Until next time — Kathy

"Children are educated by what the grown-up is and not by his talk."

Carl Jung